Tab Mix Plus

Using FF 11, TMP 0.4.0.1, Vista x64

Tried to get an understanding from reading posts about how / if one can prevent saved tabs from REloading at Firefox startup, using TMP session manager. Still confused. There is a setting in TMP under Session>Restore >When Restoring Sessions> "Reload all Tabs."

Best I can tell, if using TMP session mgr, "reload all tabs" option has no effect. Is it still broken in TMP? If UNchecked, TMP still reloads all saved tabs vs just showing opened tabs. I saw (I think) that the function of "don't load tabs until selected" when using TMP session mgr would be fixed in future updates? True or not? I believe there've been updates since then.

The BIG drawback to using FF's session restore, is no option to choose from diff sessions AND at restart, FF doesn't ASK if you want to restore the last session - it just does. Sometimes users don't want to save open tabs at some shutdown or restore at restart. That's one reason (I thought) for using TMP.

The other big question is privacy - using FF's session restore mgr vs TMP's.
1) Using FF's, the data on tabs, history, etc., will be saved in diff place(s) vs. using TMP.

2) If using FF session restore, what files would need to be deleted if you previously saved session tabs / history, & then want to securely delete it?
There are times some users would want to securely erase the files containing that info, rather than letting FF clear history.

Thanks.

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Vista home prem x64.

Tabmix session manager don't use the option "don't load tabs until selected" this is only used by Firefox build-in session-store.

the option in Tabmix for "reload all tabs" is to reload tab from the source and bypass cache.

Firefox build in session-store save its data in sessionstore.js
Tabmix Session manager save its data in session.rdf
both files are in the profile folder

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Thanks. I understand TMP option "reload all tabs" is to reload from source. That's why it (seems) if it's UNchecked, then the tabs should NOT reload from source, when a session is restored (using TMP session mgr).

When I use TMP session mgr (UNcheck "use FF session restore"), & restore session thru TMP option at FF restart, all tabs saved appear to go through a "reloading" process (based on tab's progress bars). When using TMP session mgr, & "reload all tabs" is UNchecked, there's still a progress bar on each tab, that takes several sec to complete, even for a few tabs, as each tab is "reloaded." Are you saying if "reload all tabs" is UNchecked, it's reloading them from cache, not from each web page's server?

I assumed it was reloading them from web servers, even though the "reload all tabs" option was UNchecked. Because even w/ say, 5 tabs, it takes several sec to reload all the tabs. I have a fast PC, quad CPU, 8GB, little else open. If it's reloading those tabs from cache (if the "reload all tabs" option is UNchecked), the tabs should load almost instantaneously. Web pages in cache reload instantaneously. Why would tabs take so long? Either we're not understanding each other, I don't understand how TMP is restoring the tabs or something else.

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Vista home prem x64.

its depend on the address, some tabs always reload from source.

when you use Firefox build-in session store and not check "don't load tabs until selected" you will also see progress bar on each tab - when the tabs load from cache.

i'm planing to rewriting Tabmix session code to use the build-in session store.

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OK, that's fine. Some tabs always reload from source? All tabs always appear to be reloading from source if using TMP's session mgr. The progress bar takes far too long to complete (on this PC), for it NOT to be reloading from the source.

Even if I don't clear cache at shut down, using FF's session mgr, it doesn't restore old versions of pages stored in cache. Only tabs that show blank pages, when 1st click them, before they reload.

When you rewrite TMP to use Firefox session mgr, I'd like to see (as for TMP now) options to save and / or restore 1 or more sessions. FF session mgr has NO options - at shut down or restart. That's as poor of a design as possible.

If as you say, when "reload all tabs" is NOT checked (using TMP session mgr), it doesn't mean that it prevents ALL tabs from reloading? (perhaps prevents SOME, depending)? Is it not possible for you to implement "Don't load tabs until selected" into TMP w/o using FF's session mgr? TMP has the ability to save all open tabs & history (w/o using FF's session mgr) - why not the ability to write code to NOT reload them until selected?

Note: When I select "use Firefox session mgr", & UNcheck "don't load tabs until selected," I think it reloads the tab that was focused when Firefox was closed. All other tabs are restored instantly w/o reloading a page (but it doesn't seem to restore pages from cache).

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OK, so this means that for TMPs Session Mgr to correctly utilize the "Don't load tabs until selected" option -- which is very desirable! -- you'll have to convert it somehow to use the FF built-in session store (sessionstore.js). Will that be enough?


See this bug report:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680674

Specifically comment #3 is interesting.

Using the FF session manager is out of the question, it's just too inflexible. And losing any of the abilities to preserve state which TMP has now [history,perms,scroll pos,...] is unacceptable for me. Would this be OK if you convert to using the built-in session store?

There are many ppl wishing for some tab related functionality which was previously in the extension BarTab
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bartab/

E.g. someone here in this forum asked you for a setting to not load a tab which is opened in the background and you asked what the label of that tab was supposed to be if it's never been loaded. Personally I don't feel a great need for not loading tabs that are opened in the background, whenever I do that I very soon want to activate it anyway so there's little point for me.

Still, if TMP would correctly handle Don't load tabs until selected at session restore, and automatic timer controlled unloading of tabs with an exception list like BarTab had, then it would be perfection IMO.

No idea how much work this would be or if it would risk breaking other stuff (other extensions). Since TMP is one of the most used extensions and many ppl also use some other tab related ditto, breaking things is a bad thing. I'm one of the ppl who cannot do without Tab Mix Plus, it's absolutely necessary in FF since many years for me.


I was not 100% clear on this, so thanks for setting this straight.

/M

I'm not going to add BarTab functionality to Tabmix

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OK, but what does that mean exactly? If we forget about BarTab.

1. You will never do anything actively in TMP to make the existing FF option Don't load tabs until selected at session restore? Meaning that this will never ever work no matter what, in the TMP Session Mgr. Is that correct?

I'm not clear on what consequence the potential fix to this bugid would have https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680674 regardless of what you do in the TMP code or not. Perhaps none.

2. You will never add any functionality which does "unload" to a tab in any way, neither manually nor automatically. Correct?

the functionality of Don't load tabs until selected is build in Firefox sessionStore component when Tabmix will use this component as part of its Session manager it will be available to Tabmix's Session manager users.

the ability to "unload" tab will not be part of Tabmix

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Crystal clear, thanks. And since you're planning to rewrite the TMP session code to use the built-in FF sessionstore, this will happen in the future.

As for "unloading" of tabs. The only point of it (whatever unload means technically speaking, I don't know) is to save resources, mainly memory AFAIU.

The interest in this comes mostly from those ppl who, like myself, have up to 100 tabs open all the time and Browser sessions which last for 4-5 weeks or more. I never restart a Browser, much less a computer, unless there's a really good reason for it. I want everything ultra stable.

i didn't say that BarTab functionality is useless.
but i can not put into Tabmix everything

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No, of course not. The unloading (auto- or manual) of tabs is more complex than many ppl realize. It can break other extensions a.s.o.

As for how much it saves on resources (memory et al) in trade-off with responsiveness of the Browser overall -- I don't know. Yet. I haven't tested BarTab properly but I will on my old FF 3.6.28 with the older version (0.3) of TMP.

In any case the FF option Don't load tabs until selected will work with TMP in the future when you've converted your Session Mgr code like you said you have plans for. And that's great IMO.

Why don't you use Session Manager ext. ? With this amount of tabs and your concern for 'ultra stability', you should use an ext. created specifically for sessions.

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I'm aware of 'Session Manager', I might install it. But are you suggesting that TMP session mgr function is less stable now than 'Session Manager' (current rel version 0.7.8.1)?

Just like this guy, I've been using TMP session mgr for many years (always 80-100 tabs per session) with no negative experiences at all. Grand Dizzy, on Sep 28th, 2011

'Session Manager' and TMPs session mgr are implemented differently (Morac, on Oct 13th, 2011) , there's no really good reason for me to trust Session Manager more w.r.t. stability. There's a lot more functionality which is useful, but I can do without it too.

onemen's plan, as mentioned in this thread, is to rewrite the TMP session code completely to instead use FFs built-in sessionstore.js. This will change the whole scenario when it's done. 'Session Manager' already uses it, but only for the crash recovery, not otherwise . So once again, this means that the desired function Don't load tabs until selected at Browser restart does not work with 'Session Manager' either.

There's a more serious concern as well, which also involves the notion of Don't load tabs until selected. With a large amount of tabs, the Tab Grouping ('Panorama') is what you need and want -- unfortunately there are caveats around this and session managers. Doing a 100% correct session restore in all scenarios and handling of lots of tabs with Tab Groups is apparently full of pitfalls: Morac, on Oct 13th, 2011

I see in that 'Session Manager' forum thread that onemen did some workarounds in TMP when FF7-8 was the current rel, in 0.3.8.7pre.111011a. Panorama related bugs in FF may have been fixed after this, so that FF11 is just fine with this.
This bug has been fixed Bug 688695 in FF11 I think, but this one has not : Bug 705964

@onemen
What's the state of all this now with Panorama in FF11? Are we still on thin ice in your opinion with restoring complex sessions using lots of Tab Groups? (I think the answer is yes...)

It seems that the state of things right now for ppl constantly having lots of tabs open, is that these four are desirable to have working well together:
1. Tab Groups ('Panorama')
2. Tab Mix Plus
3. BarTab (tab unload & don't load tabs at a session restore)
4. Session Manager

(There also a now retracted ext called UnloadTab, it's low quality code according to the author himself.)

But we're not quite there yet. BarTab is no longer actively maintained because the author now works 100% on Firefox itself. Rumour has it that it still works OK with FF10 & 11, but it may well clash with some other ext etc, I haven't tested it myself yet with my set of extensions.

There's said to be a workaround using (empty) Tab Groups to avoid the loading of lots of tabs then restarting FF. Tabs in Groups not active in any Browser window are not loaded at restart, so it's a matter of manually switching to the appropriate Tab Group(s) before exiting FF. It's a bit clumsy if you have 4-5 browser windows open at all times, which is very common for anyone using a virtual window manager like VirtuaWin.

Should all the unloading/loading of tabs stuff be put into FF itself in the future, then that can be taken off the list. All that remains is Session Handling with "full" functionality, something which TMP doesn't have and never will AFAIU.

So in the mean time: which task is more complex and cumbersome to code and maintain, session handling or deferral of tab loading / tab unloading..? (rethorical question)

So I came back to TMP because my other tab addon won't work anymore.
Without TMP giving this feature (why?) what are the alternatives so get this function? Anyone got a small addon for this?

I think you should add this feature to TMP; if you need code ideas for this feature you could have a look at TabUtilities.

Thanks

Just another request to fix "Reload all tabs" so that when it's UN-checked tabs are restored from cache, if available, and not reloaded from source unless or until being clicked on for the first time in a session, or the reload icon is clicked, or perhaps an additional feature is added whereby multiple tabs may be selected and then the reload icon is clicked for selective group reloading. Like the other posters to this thread, I run dozens of tabs and don't want them all to reload every time I need to start up due to how long it takes for that to happen. Thanks!

Still not addressed in 0.4.0.3. Good add-in, but a fix to this would make it great.

i'm working on this

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Odd. I seem to have a setup/config now in my newly updated FF14.0.1 + TMP 0.4.0.3 (the latest officially released one), which does not reload all the tabs at restart of FF the way it always did before. My previous version was FF 11.

N.B. This new(?) behaviour is when I do a restart (like in about:addons after a manual update of an extension). I haven't yet confirmed what happens when I simply exit FF14.0.1 and start it later. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting things here... or misunderstand how things behave & work

Something has changed for me now in any case, much for the better w.r.t. restarting FF. Still not nearly as good as Opera 9+ is at this, but that's not easy to compete with... Maybe it's some sort of side effect, related to some or other of the tab-related exts I have installed (55 in total)?

Load Tabs Progressively 1.6.1
Reload Tabs Progressively 0.1.2010020201
Restartless Restart 8
TabGroups Menu 0.9.1

In FF11 before, LTP (Load Tabs Progressively) always did it's job correctly, I have it set to 3. This helps a lot, making FF usable on this old Win XP SP3 box, while reloading all the tabs I always have open. But now, I can restart FF14.0.1 and it's really fast, no actual reloading of all the tabs except the one in focus. LTP never kicks in. As soon as I activate a tab, it reloads OK and displays correctly.

So what's up with this now? AFAICS, onemen's saying repeatedly for past 2-3 weeks that he's now working on the session store stuff in TMP (excellent!) but it's not done and certainly not released yet.

I have these settings in TMP:
[ ] Use Firefox's built-in Session Restore Feature
[v] Enable Session Manager
[v] Enable Crash Recovery

...

Under 'Restore'
[ ] Reload all tabs

Under 'Preserve': everything checked except "Closed tabs list"

In the FF14 options General, Startup:
When Firefox starts: "Tab Mix Plus Session Manager..."
[v] Don't load tabs until selected

That last option is greyed out, can't change it in the GUI.

/M

Thanks a lot for this recommendation. Session Manager works absolutely great and it has much better features (at least for me).

And the Firefox option "Don't load tabs until selected" (which doesn't work with TMP) works with this Session Manager too.